Dear Jonas, for a long time you had planned to study piano, but you ultimately chose to pursue a dual degree in Business Administration at HSBA instead. When did you realise that you wanted to start your own business?
Taking control of my own life was important to me from a very early age. During the final months of my studies at Otto, I realised that I wanted to move towards the start-up world. At the time, I even pitched an idea at Otto. It was well received, but ultimately not taken forward.
After graduating from HSBA, I spent a year pursuing several start-up ideas, none of which proved successful. I then joined Gruner + Jahr, a company within the Bertelsmann Group. A year later, my co-founder Carlo and I succeeded in convincing Gruner + Jahr to support us in founding a new company.
The story of applike is a success story that shows how a start-up can emerge from within a large corporation. For a variety of reasons, this rarely works in practice—but it is possible, and that is precisely what makes the applike story so compelling.
Can you briefly explain what applike is?
applike is a leading mobile advertising platform. We advertise on smartphones and essentially solve two problems for our app and mobile game partners: We help them attract new users. Every mobile game and every app needs new users, which is not so easy with almost five million apps now available in app stores. That's why we specialise in user acquisition. But we also serve the monetisation side, helping mobile games and apps earn money from users by displaying advertising. With almost 450 employees from over 50 countries, we develop software that helps apps with these two issues. That is the main focus of the applike group. Formularende
Before you founded applike with Carlo Szelinsky in 2015, you tried your hand at Copay, a business idea you had already explored in your bachelors thesis. Why wasn't Copay a success? Was it an important experience along the way?
At Copay, Carlo's and my first company, we distributed online shop vouchers at Le Crobag and in the Telekom Shop. We wanted to attract offline customers to online shopping. On the whiteboard, it looked like a nice business model, as both sides were supposed to pay us. Unfortunately, it didn't work out in practice. But we learned a lot from this experience:
Firstly, how to handle money: if, as a young person, you ever felt like you wouldn't be able to pay your rent the following month, it shapes you for life. You handle money differently afterwards. I still feel that way today, even though we have now achieved unicorn status with applike (a company valuation of more than €1 billion), are highly profitable and advertise in over 100 countries. As an entrepreneur, I am very careful with resources and know that every euro we spend has to be earned first.
Secondly, Copay's business model simply wasn't tailored to Carlo's and my strengths. My main interest has always been in building partnerships and strategically aligning a company so that it functions sustainably. We also call this "outsmarting the competition" here in the team. Carlo, on the other hand, is responsible for technology and product: with his teams, he can build a market-ready prototype in just a few weeks better than most people worldwide. That's why applike is such a good fit for us: we are essentially an AdTech company – I stand for "Ad", Carlo for "Tech". Copay, on the other hand, was basically an offline business, and we couldn't leverage Carlo's strengths there in particular.
And thirdly, I understood how important scalability is. A technology- or product-based business is much easier to scale because revenue can grow much faster than costs. Getting there is challenging, but it leads to incredible opportunities for employee development and, of course, growth in company value.
How did you come up with the idea for applike?
During my early days at Gruner & Jahr, I worked in mergers and acquisitions, where I spoke to many start-up teams from an investor's perspective. That inspired me and gave me energy and ultimately led us to launch the applike idea.
At the time, I had an idea book in which I had written down at least 100 ideas. The first version of applike came from this book and was an app that rewarded users for trying out mobile games, a loyalty programme for mobile games, so to speak. The mobile gaming market is huge and very lucrative, so we started generating installations for mobile games through our loyalty app. The game providers paid us for this.
Over a period of two years, we continuously improved our concept and basically went through the entire value chain of marketing, product optimisation and monetisation ourselves as app publishers. In the process, it became clear where gaps still exist and where the challenges lie in successfully operating an app. This then developed into today's business model. In addition to our own "reward apps," we now focus on helping apps in the B2B sector become more successful – especially in user acquisition and monetisation of their own user base.
One example is our collaboration with Nectar in the UK, the largest loyalty programme in the country: we operate the "Nectar Game World" in the Nectar app. Users can collect points here by playing mobile games. We provide the entire technology: from the playout logic ("Who sees which campaign?") to fraud prevention and all the mechanics of rewarded advertising. We integrate this solution into leading cashback and loyalty programmes worldwide.
Along the way, we have built up further business areas in video advertising and games development. The market has great potential. The largest company in this segment from the USA (Applovin) is now valued at almost USD 200 billion, which is more than VW, BMW and Volkswagen combined. In comparison, we are only just getting started.
You have described the story of applike as an example of how a start-up can succeed when it emerges from a large corporation. Looking back, do you feel this was the right path for you, or would you do anything differently today? What would you say were the key advantages and disadvantages?
I’ve noticed that many people find it very difficult to ask for help — especially business students [laughs]. Out of fear of appearing inexperienced or vulnerable, many end up getting in their own way and accept slower progress as a result. Yet young people in particular can benefit enormously from the experience of others — but doing so sometimes requires putting one’s ego aside.
We were particularly dependent on good advice when setting up an independent company within a corporate group. Such decisions can usually only be made at the highest level, mostly by the CEO in consultation with the supervisory board, especially when it comes to establishing a new business division that includes a stake for the founders. Even though many board members want to promote entrepreneurship, hardly anyone really knows how this can be implemented organisationally and "politically". Large organisations are simply complex, and we learned a lot during this process.
A large strategic investor can be a real advantage: not only does it bring stability, but it also usually has staying power and may be less nervous about the monthly figures – as long as the long-term direction is right. Of course, the overarching goal is always to build something big – but in the beginning, everything is still small and needs time to mature. Personally, I feel very comfortable with a family-owned company as the main shareholder ( ), as we share many values.
At the same time, corporate structures can also be challenging. For example, many companies work with fixed five-year budget cycles. However, it is hardly possible for a start-up to deliver reliable business plans so far in advance – and, naturally, they are often off the mark. This can lead to strenuous discussions within a corporation, especially for those who are responsible for the figures. Personally, I don't really care about annual figures: my job is to build long-term value – for the employees as well as for the shareholders.
All in all, it was definitely always the right decision for us to set up applike together with Gruner + Jahr and Bertelsmann. Financially, the greater risk was always borne by Bertelsmann, while Carlos and I were responsible for building up the business operationally. In return, Bertelsmann holds a majority stake in applike. I am very grateful for this successful partnership.
Despite your success, you have remained refreshingly modest and still appear to be very careful with money. What does money mean to you personally?
Thank you, that’s very kind. Thanks to the company’s success, I am fortunate enough not to need to spend all of my money. Also, my relatively simple lifestyle certainly plays a part.
I was already very conscious of my spending during my studies. If I bought a coffee for three euros, I would immediately work out what that meant over the course of a month and whether it fitted within my budget. Living beyond my means was never an option for me — it was simply something that had been deeply ingrained from an early stage.
I believe that money never really belongs to you alone – it was always part of a larger cycle and belonged to someone else before. Especially when you have more than others, this comes with a special responsibility to be conscious and prudent with money. In our case, people used apps, installed a game and spent money there. The game pays a fee to applike, and at some point in this entire value creation process, part of the money flows back to me. This clearly raises the question for me: where does this money go back to? Ideally, not exclusively to my own account.
Personally, I am particularly interested in projects that deal with new forms of healing mental illness, as well as the promotion of art and culture.
A lot has happened since you graduated from HSBA. Can you still remember how you came to HSBA?
I wanted to study piano for a long time, but I realised that being alone wasn't for me. The daughter of a good friend of my mum's was doing a dual degree at Otto at the time, and that's how I found out about the extremely demanding application process with around 2,000 applicants. It was precisely this challenge that appealed to me at the time – so a certain amount of ego can also be quite useful [laughs]. During the application process, I realised that I really liked the environment and the work. Typical for me as a rather intuitive, decisive person, I didn't weigh it up forever but simply decided to go for it because it felt right.
You studied with Alexander Djordjevic and Ole Schaumberg, the founders of foodist. And Jonathan Kurfess, founder of Appinio, joined us a year after you. Did you know each other?
Yes, we all knew each other back then and are still in touch today. I was actually quite close friends with Ole – we organised a small series of parties together. By our final year of study, it was clear to Ole, Alex and me that we were the ones who wanted to do something of our own after graduation. I was already in the middle of my first start-up. And Jonathan later successfully founded and built up Appinio.
As a dual business school, we want to give our students the tools they need to do what they want to do. That means being successful in a company or going their own way. In your case, it was a bit of both. How would you say that HSBA and your studies helped you to realise your ideas?
The first year of my studies was particularly difficult for me and I didn't really enjoy it. But over time, I realised how valuable everything I learned there was. Today, I use content from my studies every week – whether in discussions with our CFO or with Bertelsmann on topics such as accounting, financial reporting or labour law, or on operational topics such as pricing, marketing and distribution systems. My co-founder often asks me, "How do you know all this?"
Of course, I don't remember every detail by heart, but my studies taught me a certain way of thinking: structured, analytical and solution-oriented. And precisely because I am a very intuitive, gut-driven person, this analytical counterpoint was incredibly valuable to me. I still benefit from it today.
At that time, many entrepreneurs and executives were invited to HSBA, including the founder of the Stern-Wywiol Group and various board members from other partner companies. This made it very easy to see which career path might be right for you. In addition, the fellow students also talked about what was happening in their partner companies. This gave me a broad insight and enabled me to better assess what might suit me.
In my third year of study, Prof. Dr. Ann-Kathrin Harms also ran the "Entrepreneurial Marketing" project as part of the marketing specialisation. There, we developed a business plan for the climbing hall in Wilhelmsburg – a project that was really exciting.
If you wanted to, you could learn an incredible amount from all these opportunities. Looking back, it was a very valuable experience.
Today, you are an experienced entrepreneur and founder who people can turn to for advice. Is there anything you would like to pass on to our students?
Start where you are!
I am now 35 and looking back, I can say that until I founded applike at the age of 25, I often changed my environment quickly as soon as something didn't go well. If my employer wasn't right for me, I looked for a new one. If my circle of friends wasn't right, I changed it. If I no longer enjoyed a sport, I moved on to the next one. Maybe that was a bit extreme at times.
Over time, however, I realised that it's often worth pausing for a moment and asking yourself what you really want. If you want to start a business, for example, you can often get more out of your existing environment than you think. Because what often happens when you change your environment? You take your own patterns with you – and end up in a similar situation again. We humans are strange in that way: in my opinion, we often unconsciously seek out the same problems, just in a new setting. Three years later, you have a new employer, but a lot of things feel the same as before.
That's why I've made it a habit to try to make changes in my existing environment first. Pause for a moment, listen to your inner voice and think: What can I do differently here and now? And often, after just a week, you'll notice that things are going better and that you're happier. If it still doesn't feel right, you can always move on. But first, you should try to make the most of what you have. Often, there's already a lot there.
This is especially true if you want to start a business. First, use what is already there: your fellow students, colleagues, the people next to you in your studies. See what you can develop together from your current opportunities. Don't immediately pack up and move to Berlin and blindly follow what you read on TechCrunch or elsewhere. If you look at successful start-up stories, it's rarely those who simply followed trends – but those who found their own way.
Find out what you are really capable of. Get the most out of your existing environment. And if that doesn't make you successful or satisfied, then change something.
I still remember an event at HSBA where there was talk of "creating the resilient employees of tomorrow." The word "resilient" irritated me even then. Of course, you have to get a lot done in this world, and resilience is important, but the most important skill in professional life should not be to endure as much as possible. The best results come when people get into a flow, when they have fun, develop energy and teams really start to function. If you haven't been in that state for too long, the answer shouldn't be, "Become more resilient." Instead, find an environment that suits you – one where this flow is possible in the first place. Then success and satisfaction are inevitable.
More inspiring start-up stories from HSBA: Entrepreneurship at HSBA
